Okay first off: why is it that there is a certain class of guys who only plays first-person shooters and/or sports games?
Also, I think it's annoying how our culture makes it so that girls tend not to play "traditional video games" as much as guys do. A lot of girls won't touch games because they think of it as a boys-only domain, although they are quick to jump on Facebook or cell phone games, which are essentially just video games with a lower budget.
As Daniel mentioned in his previous post, video games tend to have a bad reputation in terms of being "immature" or just in general not "productive" (again, this is referring to a specific person who shall remain nameless). I'm not quite sure why this is. Well, okay, I kinda am. Video games started as toys marketed exclusively towards kids, and only in recent years have they begun to catch up with other mediums in terms of catering towards adults and striving towards art and away from just mindless entertainment.
I just want to use this post as a jumping-off point towards some discussion about the state of video games in our society now and where they are headed in the future. I agree with Daniel that they have unlimited potential towards making great leaps forward as an artistic medium, because no other kind of art allows for the complete immersion of the senses and brain the way video games do. To me, nothing is as frightening as a good horror game; nothing will draw me in for as many hours as some of the more addictive games out there. Ultimately, I feel that in the future, nothing could suck us into an absorbing and immersive storyline the way a video game could (as long as audiences keep showing development companies that we are willing to buy challenging and mature games that aren't just mindless popcorn fare). I respect the Wii for some of its games--Mario Galaxy chief among them--but I sometimes worry that the future of gaming will be baking a cake in a game or getting a workout in a game instead of running or biking outside. I would rather Nintendo push into other dimensions, into things that only games can do. If we want to do yoga, we can do that in real life; we don't need to do it in a Wii game. I'd rather see there be more Shadow of the Collosus's instead of more Wii Fit's.
--Edward
Amen on the Shadow of Collusus. Can you imagine doing that in real life? Holy shit. (In the game you run acorss a vast land with nothing but gigantic monster bosses you take out one by one by one. It is very simple and elegant and gorgeous from what I've seen.) Wii has some good ideas with how it went off the path with the controllers, but Edward's right in that they stopped short with cakes and yoga mats. Hopefully, PS3 and Xbox's push towards similarily interactive types of controllers and adapters will push Wii to do something that truly impresses people for the CONTENT rather than just the potential. And if not them I have faith Xbox and PS will continue to do as they do, even though my heart's always with Nintendo (and oh how they've trodden on it!).
ReplyDeleteAm I the only person who loved the N64 but doesn't have any particular loyalty towards Nintendo?
ReplyDeleteI for one have no problem with the standard video game controller format. I don't need to vaguely seem like I'm realistically doing a motion in real life (and burn 220 calories while doing it!) to have fun in a game. Nintendo really should have focused more on their content with this generation of games, in my opinion, instead of just finding various ways to use their controller. But whatever, they are making me eat my words, since they've sold absolutely absurd amounts of games, so they are probably sitting back smiling in their leather chairs, looking out the window at all the people the people they've enslaved. Jake and I looked up the top selling video games of all time last night on the Wii, and there were only like 3 or 4 that weren't Wii games on the top 20 list. It was absolutely obscene. As far as I'm concerned, they sold their souls to make a buck. But that's another story for another day....
What it comes down to is Zelda and Mario, and for the deeper truth, Banjo Kazooie and Perfect Dark. Nintendo showed me why video games were beautiful, fun, and awesome. However, since the 64, Nintendo has indeed sold its bastard soul to the children and Japanese starting with Gamecube, and all the compatibility with hand-held shit instead of worrying about normal people (older losers like myself) wasting away on consoles. What else? They released a system in the time when it seemed pretty simple to have DVD capabilities with a video game system, and they released it with MINI DISCS? JMC, that's dumb. The controllers were downright stupid. That C-stick is a swolen, off-functioning, painful thing, and why can't they have a normal set of bumpers with the standard R1, R2, L1, and L2? I give Wii the benefit of the doubt on the controller mostly because it was apparent from Gamecube that they were running their own gaming race in the clouds competing with ghosts, so why not stretch the mod a bit and do something drastic? Their execution faltered though (I don't consider overall sales a success story if I'm not the one buying the crap), and is really fun for Wii sports, while being sort of a distraction for other games, normal games. Again, Wii could simply release a Nintendo version of the PS controller as an alternate (like providing silverware at a Chinese restaurant for all those not ashamed to cram their pieholes like the American gluttons we are - although sumo wrestlers do manage to eat a shit ton with chop sticks, let's be honest), and the problem would be solved!
ReplyDeleteI basically consider Nintendo shot after the 64, and as for the other contenders, they've been strong for a very long time (PS1 was amazing, and don't you be crying all you PS1 fans who hated us 64 fanboys, because your time has come with PS2 and 3 to shove it in the faces of everyone, because God knows Sony knows how to make a playstation). Xbox ain't going nowhere as they've proven, although it seems they've been slacking lately compared to PS3. If I were to spend money on a system more than a hundred bucks (because of course I'd get a bootleg Wii for less if need be--when I live somewhere where there isn't one already) than PS3 would have to be it. Wii doesn't really do shit compared to it and we all know it. But lord I love Galaxy. Holy crap.
Unfortunately, in this day and age, one game isn't and shouldn't be enough to carry a system when so many important and diverse games are coming out (okay, two games, since Galaxy has a sequel). Even if the Wii has other good games, which I'm sure it does and I know it does, well fuck it, I won't get any more mad in these comments then I have to. Can't say I'm a big fan of Nintendo in the last decade though. They don't need my money anyways.
ReplyDeleteYeah, they basically sucked it up. Here's to hoping the next one is good! lololol one love kthxbai
ReplyDeleteHaha yeah, good luck with that hope. Nintendo destroyed any sense of "childlike hope" in me, which they seem to peddle into enough of their games (it'd be interesting to read some sort of really cynical intellectual talk about Nintendo's exploitation of childhood dreams and nostalgia to make money). Regardless, if they continue to make a good game or two, I'll end up buying them. But there is nothing romantic about the company at all for me anymore, if there ever was (I never really considered the 64 to be better than other company's systems; it just happened to be the one I owned).
ReplyDeleteWow, harsh analysis of the 64. "She was just some schlampe I banged and threw away" (you did throw yours away didn't you.) You almost sound like someone who remains unnamed in their coldness towards or formative experiences with said systems. Romantic or not, Nintendo's not dying, and they'll be entertaining in some way, shape, or form. In the mean time, I need to beat Little Big Planet. JAKE! I'm calling you out. I'll buy it off Matt if I have to, because we all know how that story went.
ReplyDeleteI'll get Little Big Planet when I actually get my PS3, which might or might not ever happen.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not cold towards the 64. I loved it a lot, but I'm just not kidding myself into thinking that I wouldn't have loved the PS1 just as much had I gotten that instead. I think our imaginations and love for games is great enough that we would've gotten obsessed with just about any good system complete with great games at that time period. The 64 just came at the exact right time for us, and yes it did have great games. If you bought Little Big Planet off Matt, what system would you guys play it on?
Yeah, from what I've seen of PS1, I loved. And as for Matt's LBP, I think you know what system we would've used (the one that's currently circling the globe in the hands of a cartel that eventually plans to meet in the "drug trafficking area" I got pulled over in Leesburg, and will eventually be dealt by the only other person that Matt that currently has one, hint, HINT).
ReplyDeleteThat is literally the most confusing sentence I have seen in my entire life
ReplyDeletethat is basically the innards of my kopf
ReplyDeleteAny thoughts about gender-related issues and video games? Anyone?
ReplyDeleteI'll field that one. I think there are generally more girls out there playing games than 10, even 5 years ago. And I don't mean just the Farmville Facebook crap ones. However, the whole facebook, smart phone, twitter immersion that our society and especially are younger generation has gone through over the past few years has in a way legitimized video games by association. This is especially true when the PS3 and Xbox360 go out of their way to make their consoles a do-everything-you-can-think-of box, rather than just a gaming device. This is reflective of cell phones lightning fast evolution into do-everything devices that fit in your pocket. All of this, I feel, makes the public more comfortable and even more expectant that these things come standard, and suddenly people that wouldn't normally be close to games are one click away.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of the games themselves, the music games of Guitar Hero and Rock Band I'm sure have made a huge impact on getting non-9 through 30 males on board to play a video game, simply because they are by nature so different than two joysticks and thousands nazis to kill. Other than the music games I think Xbox and PS have been a bit slower to move towards that "everyone" type game with a couple exceptions (Little Big Planet, Lego games). Wii obviously dominates the kiddie, family, obscurity genres, so I wouldn't see why Microsoft and Sony would care to really invest much time into those at first when they've got a good thing going with the meat and potatoes frat/nerd games. But you can definitely see them starting to reach out more with their additions of the motion sensor controllers and just other-genre friendly game attempts in general. I think this will inevitably push more girls to play as well as everyone as it becomes more acceptable for girls to pull out such a game at a party or for just hanging out with friends. That is indeed the avenue, though, that games have had to travel I feel like to get the stereotypical girl to ply: social environment. I could see girls playing rock band or some similar-content game together as a group like they would get together to watch Gossip Girl or True Blood. The bigger divide is between the awesomely unafraid nerd girl who plays games on her own and the other girls who have no idea why anyone would spend their time doing that. As to why the other girls think that way, that is where I have a hard time guessing some reasons other than the stereotypical boys = blue, testosterone, violence, video games, and girls = pink, dress-up, shopping, anything else. Also, as we've seen the video game developers know their audience so they won't try to hard to get girls on board if they have millions of guys buying all their crap. I don't know, I wonder if it really is just the association of games with nerdiness, tomboyishness, or something else that keeps girls from trying them out, because I'm sure a good amount would enjoy shooting guns, crashing cars, and occupying other worlds if they just sat down and tried. Thoughts?
Daniel fielding my question--oh man, what a big surprise. My thoughts? Yes, I do think more girls don't play your average video games because of their association with nerdiness or in general masculinity. Just the same reason that more guys don't take yoga classes filled with women. As you probably know, I hate our society's image-obsession and vanity, as well as its insecurity. Although I too suffer from it, I try to ignore and rebel against our society's gender separation issues. For instance, you're a girl (or a fag) if you like certain things. That is so completely ridiculous and immature to me. You don't like football or you aren't obsessed with cars? What a fucking flamer. I just think we need to move beyond such things, and I wish that a lot of girls didn't think it was too masculine to like video games, but that just seems to be the way things are. I feel that it would do a lot to legitimize gaming if girls jumped into the audience 100%, and we would see games move in new directions most likely (perhaps towards more story-oriented stuff, which I wouldn't complain about).
ReplyDeleteIt'd be interesting to look at the beginning of other forms of art and how gender played a role, especially ones that were created from technology like photography and then filmmaking. As for writing and painting, society was even more extreme back then (the macho dudes of those times wrote poetry).
ReplyDeleteIt'd be hard to compare the beginnings of other art forms and video games, since when photography and film were started Western culture was a lot more sexist then it is now. There still isn't very many female directors, which is why Kathryn Bigelow caused so much hoopla for The Hurt Locker. I am all in favor of breaking down sexual barriers. (Gasp)
ReplyDeleteYeah I really hadn't thought about few female directors I had heard of (none really) until then.
ReplyDeleteEdward, in your initial post you show how video games have come a long way from being kids toys to now being basically works of art. It's a great point, but I'd like to hear more about them being productive, which was really my only question as the "person who remains nameless." I wasn't concerned with the immaturity of games or whether games have reached a point in their progress where the better ones are impressive works of art (that, I more than agree with).
ReplyDeleteThe reason I raise the question of productivity is my recent downsize of free time and turn-over of free-time priorities. At this time, I seem to feel like for a game to be productive it would have to be educational at some level. I'd like to think that having fun, or being immersed in a story or environment is productive, but I can't see a way to reason that.
Well, obviously I don't find them that productive either, or I would place them on a higher priority...hence my comment about being the only 20-something who wishes he had more time to play games. I have never thought they were that productive, but I also don't see how reading a fictional book is any more productive. You said learning new vocabulary, but that just seemed like a flimsy reason to read books--you might as well look in a dictionary or use other vocabulary-building exercises. To me, a novel and a video game are about the same in terms of "social productivity." I don't think either are particularly.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I do think that reading increases your intelligence far more than videogames do. If you count that as part of "social productivity," then I can see your point. As you go up the scale in intelligence, does that make people more likely to be less social and more awkward/shy/depressed/other things? That is a question I leave for the scientists.
ReplyDeleteI've always thought of "productive" as more "worthwhile" as opposed to "advantageous" in the scheme of things, meaning it would be advantageous to get ahead in some way socially, physically, or mentally (they're not advantageous). I think they're worthwhile, meaning they're fun, I enjoy them, they make me happy. To rephrase the question for all other people, are video games worthwhile? Do they make you happy?
ReplyDeleteNo, of course not. Are you stupid?
ReplyDeleteAnd to answer Edward as an astute scientist in the remarkable field of courteous-emailing, document-reviewing, and spreadsheet-updating (ya turned on yet?), if you're going to carry this thought of reading to become more knowledgeable to an extreme, then yes at some distant point down the line I would think you would become less social because you can't relate to all the idiot paeons around you. However, if you read and become knowledgeable but still bother to talk to people, I think you could manage some sort of social life. Is this an absurd and groundless statement? Perhaps. But nerds are in (apparently), so tivo that Big Bang Theory and come over to my place where we can get smashed and play Risk.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think being social and being intelligent are two completely different fields. Many idiots are very good socially, and many intelligent people suck with others. However, perhaps Jake meant that if you are intelligent, you could get yourself a job to help out society as a whole, for instance a doctor, teacher, or loan shark. In this, I think he is correct. The more intelligent you are, probably the better you are able to help others. But in terms of just having a lot of friends, I would say they are pretty unrelated (unless you want to run with a snobby, literati crowd).
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